Dear Selina, can older women still be Sirens? Are we less desirable after menopause?

Dear Selina,

Love your blog, your encouraging and open minded way to write and your clarity, it really resonates with me and inspires me and not only one time it gave me helpful insights into my own situations!

Getting out of the “childbearing” age I just stumbled about this sentence of yours that men will always desire women when they are in the “childbearing age”.. Yes, I do know about this aspect of attraction, of course, and I don’t have illusions about that. Still it sparked the question in me : Does this mean a siren can only be a siren in this stage of life? Does she lose a part of her “magic” once she is getting into premenopause?

I am really curious about your thoughts on this one, and I think we all are a little afraid of aging to some extent, because as women we just know that generally speaking, men prefer young fertile women and losing attention or like many women in this society, becoming sort of “invisible” is hard for our feminine core, in a way.. And still this might not be the whole truth.. So what does a siren do once she gets past the “fertile stage” of life? How does she live it?

~~~

First, thank-you for the kind words and wonderful feedback! I’m so glad my work has helped you in your journey. What an excellent question you bring up! I’m sure many women have this fear or insecurity… so let me assure you that you need not fear a thing.

The sentence you’re referring to that I wrote was in answer to a young woman who had similarly-young men around her. Young people are far more sex driven because hormones are highest before the childbearing chapter of people’s lives is complete … that is as nature needs it to be for obvious reasons. However it does not follow that men who are well established in their lives and done with kids, are looking to marry 20 year old girls. But none the less I understand your question completely, and will elaborate because this is such a common quasi-myth perpetuated as mind-violence toward women in our society.

So often because we are fed crazy stories by the media about sick men like Hugh Heffner, we think that’s reality. It’s not, nor would you want that any part of that perversion in your life. Tales of fancy and famous gray haired men dating nineteen year old girls, or the obsession with youthful superficial perfection are designed to make you insecure on purpose so that you go shopping. We are continually bombarded with the narrative that “desirable” men who live a superficially “glamorous” life won’t want you if your boobs aren’t inflated like melons and your body is rail thin and every wrinkle has been burned off by a laser. What they don’t ever tell you is that these men are often completely broken inside and are not capable of meaningful relationships. The women they catch are simply objects to adorn their own narcissism and male insecurity. None the less, these constant images create a cushy bottom line for people selling pills and potions and diet plans and whatever else… you’d be shocked how much of our consumer economy is completely unnecessary stuff women buy to try to change their bodies and appearance. Men don’t really care about their own appearance (as you no doubt have noticed!), and they’re not willing to change themselves in order to be “desired” the same way that women are – so there’s no point in makeup companies creating commercials encouraging men to get the right eyeliner or fancy foundation because rich-crazy-women are only interested in good looking boy-toys. That doesn’t work on them. They simply don’t care that Madonna with her billions is dating 20 year old backup dancers with 6-pack abs… it doesn’t inspire them to get a gym membership one bit! But for some reason, that’s exactly what women do, when they see rich old male celebrities dating teen models and starlets. 

I can’t tell you how many men have confessed to me that they are turned off by all the “high maintenance” things women do because they think it makes them attractive from TV and magazine commercials, and how disappointed they have been when falling for temptation and dating a too-young but “hot” woman that she had nothing to say.

Youth and superficial good looks are great if you’re into hooking men for one night stands… but if you want a good man as a partner for life, youth and beauty are truly irrelevant – in fact often youth and dazzling beauty will be a hinderance as they attract the wrong kind of men who seek “a trophy” on their arm instead of a meaningful relationship. 

The bottom line is that superficial people will be superficial – male or female. If there is a massive age and wealth and power gap within a couple, it’s a sign of an unhealthy and ultimately unsustainable relationship, not something to envy. And while there are valid reproductive reasons for men who are still interested in children to select a woman who is able to have them, this is by far not the majority of men who are past that point in their life. To prove this, I would invite to you step back from whatever sources are brainwashing you with the idea that only childbearing age women are desirable (regardless of the mans age), and observe in real life every man you know who has a head full of grey hair, and what age his partner is. Once you are tuned back into reality, you’ll clearly see that people pair up with other people who are quite similar to them across many respects, including age. Very rarely will you find a grey haired man in his 60s, 70s + paired up with a beautiful woman young enough to have children. It’s so unnatural in fact, that it requires extreme fame or wealth or status to compensate for the issue… and that’s not something you’ll see in the real world outside of tabloid magazines and Hollywood. 

The rather sad thing about your letter, is that you’re questioning your sexual desirability not as a grey-haired elderly woman (which would still be incorrect), but as a woman “getting into pre-menopause”. I want to say with complete love and kindness toward you, that this is total and utter nonsense – and I’m sorry for whoever and whatever put that thought into your head. Can you imagine any man on this planet saying to himself, “Oh no, I’m getting close to 35…” or “I’m getting to be almost 40 this year… I suppose soon I’ll no longer be desirable to women and have nothing to offer as a life partner.” Doesn’t that sound completely ridiculous?

Often it helps to state our fears out loud and imagine if a man were to say the same thing, to snap out of our irrational thinking. You can also extrapolate the false “logic” of your fear-thoughts, to see that they make no sense. If every man on the planet only wants 20-something year old women as life partners, and if we can each only have one life partner at a time, and women get to choose who they want to be with (and naturally a 20 year old woman isn’t going to choose a 70 year old man) then that means that 9 out of 10 men who are not similarly in their 20’s (or extremely rich/powerful/handsome etc to make up for the age difference), would be left living the celibate life of a monk against their wishes. So your fear has to be telling you that, if you extrapolate the “logic” of these ideas, that 9/10 men would rather be home alone with their hand than date a woman who was “getting into pre-menopause” regardless of what age the man is… 40s, 50s, 60s +. Can you see how that makes no sense whatsoever and doesn’t reflect reality? The reality is no man wants to be home alone, and 20 year old women are not interested in dating 50 year old men – nor are 20 year old men interested in giving up their girlfriends to 50 year old pervy guys… thus with few notable exceptions the dating market balances out with the vast majority of people finding life partners within the same decade as their own age. 

I am not saying that any man who still has a pulse wouldn’t appreciate and admire the beauty of a gorgeous young woman walking by, or acting in a film, or on the cover of a magazine. But to be fair, this is no different than a woman of any age or desirability, daydreaming about the young stud with his shirt off that she catches a glimpse of at the football game, on the cover of a romance novel, or playing the lead in a movie. And the difference between admiring or fantasizing about a shiny-youthful-gorgeous person and choosing them as a life partner, is like the difference between taking a tour of a giant glittering mansion, and actually moving in. The Palace of Versailles is fun to visit for an evening… but who’d want to bother with the maintenance? 

And that’s how any sane man with character in your age bracket looks at all those young models that pressure your insecurities and push your fear buttons.

Because the truth is the media wants you to be terrified of wrinkles, getting older, being fat, etc, so that you’ll buy more skin cream and plastic surgery and the billions of dollars worth of products sold to women every year. Women could literally do absolutely nothing to themselves and the men would still be quite happy to have lots of sex with them anyway if they could! No makeup. No shaving. No push up bras. Nothing… (Where were all these products for the vast majority of human history? Do you think medieval women needed Channel #5 or full body waxing to find true love?) All these female products to “catch men” were invented in very recent history, and are still only used by a small minority of women on the planet. Have tribal men stopped having sex with tribal women in the jungles of the Amazon, because they aren’t imitating the latest makeup trends by the Kardashian sisters? Reason proves to us that everything we superficially do to attract male attention is irrelevant to securing male attention… the simple fact of being a woman is sufficient, and that is where our power and confidence must ultimately come from.

You were born a woman – and that alone is enough to find the love of a good man. For as long as you are alive, and however old you are, it will always be enough. 

Our vastly distorted consumerist male-dominated society is not a reflection of reality, it’s a reflection of corporations pushing your buttons for the sake of profits and wallowing in abject male fantasies. But fantasies should never be confused with reality! We live in reality… not at the Playboy Mansion. Profits at the expense of our mental well being are why the rich men in charge of these companies terrorize women with the message that if you don’t look as young and “hot” as a teenage supermodel on a magazine cover you’ll die alone with a house full of cats. It’s utter nonsense, and we should not support it with a single iota of our precious attention and mental real estate.

My statement about childbearing age was to express that men having uncontrolled sexual desire before they hit their own MENapause is a side effect of natures plan to increase their chances of having children, because they’ve not yet had them. But let me assure you, this is not quality attention, nor is it something women are sad to be rid of once they are no longer 25 and their own childbearing, and their potential partners childbearing, is behind them! The attention you receive from men once sex and family creation is no longer what’s most important in your lives, is of a far higher quality. Older men are on the whole kinder, wiser, stable, more emotionally open, caring, and giving. Not only are they past the point of chasing after every skirt they see and hustling to pay for the kids piano lessons, they have a sense of perspective and wellbeing after stepping back from the hyper-competitive career world and into retirement and leisure. The sex hormones that cause aggression and lust naturally decline, just as your reproductive hormones do. Older people of both genders have far more in common that you might imagine from sensationalist media… the golden years of a happy couple include deep bonding, stability, caring and caregiving, little acts of service, travel, recreation, perspective and peace. Often there is more focus on giving back, the community, volunteering, getting to know the neighbors, connection, and the things that actually matter – rather than chasing after the next dollar or scheming for the big promotion. With age we are meant to find our true selves, and what love is really about. In reality, the golden years are a truly beautiful and meaningful time of life as people focus on what’s most important and the legacy they want to leave behind.

In complete contrast to this truth about life, the lies perpetuated in our hyper-superficial and toxic patriarchal society are that women must be (or at least look) 25 in order to find love and happiness, which is utter nonsense. Gorgeous women (inside and out) remain gorgeous their entire lives. And just as a 70 year old woman has no interest in a college boy, sane 70 year old men have no interest in young ladies of childbearing age either. That we’re constantly bombarded with freakish exceptions to the rule like Hugh Heffner living in his Playboy “mansion” with a bevy of desperate 18 year olds in order to appeal to some twisted male fantasy, does not change the facts of real life… which is that Sirens are desirable to men at any age, and the quality of that attention improves from a great deal of unwanted/inappropriate sexual pressure from men when they are younger, to a deeper, more fulfilling, meaningful and chivalrous attention when they are older.

You can look to the lives of many famous Sirens who were surrounded with suitors, admirers, and successful men all their lives for examples, from Elizabeth Taylor to Marlene Dietrich and Mae West. In modern times you can be assured that countless men are enthralled by the presence of Cher or Helen Mirren when they step into the room, in spite of being in their 70s. In short, with age the type of attention received, and the age of potential partners changes for women as well as men, but the quality of that attention changes far more to the positive for women as they naturally weed out the horny boys in their teens and twenties, the immature or insecure 30-somethings, and resonate most with strong, confident, generous and chivalrous men who are established in life.

My advice to you is to shine your light and develop your confidence in being a Siren, and remove any toxic influence (media, magazines, point-and-click dating websites, swipe-right-if-you-want-to-have-sex-based-on-a-photo-apps, etc) in your life which are poison to your feminine radiance and wellbeing. When you live from a place of knowing your worth, as the legendary Sirens all did, and the Sirens of today all do, you’ll have no shortage of good men falling at your feet, and showering you with flowers, favors, love and attention.

~Selina

PS. If this answer resonates with you, and you’d like to explore one-on-one Siren-life-coaching from me, I’d love to hear from you at TheSirenRules@gmail.com.

Dear Selina, can we stay friends with men who desire us?

Hi Selina,

Thank you for all the posts.
I enjoy reading them and definitely feel more empowered.
I would like to hear your thoughts on how a woman can stay in good & friendly relationships with a man who is romantically interested in her.
I meet many wonderful men and I am not interested in dating any of them, as I have a partner already.
If I see that a man starts showing extra attention and I understand his potential intentions, I let him know about my relationships and offer a friendship.
Usually a man accepts it. You were previously saying that men felt good when they were useful to a woman. I agree, I can see it too. I never deny any help or attention from them, at the same time my boundaries are very strong. I don’t accept any disrespect or ignorance and always speak up. Because men like this behavior and respect me for this, it creates stronger feelings in them and at some stage of this friendship it becomes difficult for men to continue being friends, they want more and they express their true feelings.
I remind that romantic relationships are not possible, and at this stage I usually lose a man as a friend. Most of the times a man either stops any interaction or disappears. I know, I hurt his feelings.
Men obviously want and always wanted more than just friendship from the very beginning. They accepted friendship because they were hoping I would break up with my partner/ change my mind/ give them a chance.
So I wonder whether it is possible to continue being friends with a man who falls in love. It seems like a mission impossible for me and a torture for him.
Do you have a recipe for this?

~~~

Hello my lovely Siren-in-bloom!

Thank-you for the great question, for reading, and for the kinds words. I am so glad to know my work and blog has helped you on your journey of feminine empowerment. ❤

I think your questions will be a brilliant learning opportunity for everyone reading to blog, so I’d like to dive in and really explore every aspect of your letter. So just as I do in private coaching and consultations, we’ll look at every aspect, one by one, to untangle the various parts of this knot that seems to be tying you up at the moment!

(I will put my responses to each part of your letter in blue, and your words in purple for clarity.)

I would like to hear your thoughts on how a woman can stay in good & friendly relationships with a man who is romantically interested in her.

My thoughts are quite simple – you are are fully responsible for you, and you let go of inappropriate attachment to others. But you’ll probably need a little more explanation about what that means, because so few women have experienced life from this Siren perspective!

“Responsible for you” means always shining your light, being your best self, acting in an ethical manner, exemplifying love, kindness, and your unique positive traits/talents/energy with everyone you interact with, regardless of their status, position, intentions, or role in your life. It means you hold yourself accountable to living with a warm and open heart, with authenticity, and dignity, regardless of whether you are speaking to an elderly shop keeper lady you will never see again, or whether you are speaking to a billionaire or world leader who desperately wants to marry you. Your boundaries when it comes to sex are what you decide, but they are never confused with being cold, or withholding kindness out of fear or ego.

A Siren is always the same treasure to everyone she meets – a glorious Goddess of desirability and love and light and radiance. It means that as a Siren (or a Siren-in-bloom!) you do not close up your heart with pre-emptive anxiety and discriminate toward people by shutting down your kindness, intelligence, wit, beauty, zest for life, or any other lovely Siren qualities based on whether the person in front of you is male or female, and/or whether you think (or know) they desire you sexually. The only difference between how you treat your sexual partner/s and everyone else is in physical actions – but because she lives with an open heart, a Siren shines love and attention and radiates her brilliance on everyone she meets, which is precisely why everyone she meets finds her so attractive! You can not turn to ice the moment you know a man wants you, and be a Siren… Sirens live in the flames of desire, and they are not burned by them. Those flames are her warmth and fuel.

Sirens never fear the love or desire of others… they embrace and enjoy it! They revel in their glorious, magical, Nature-given, female power. They use it for good. There is an infinite amount of love that can be given and received, and it is a beautiful thing to share it unreservedly. Where so many people get tripped up of course, is confusing love and sex. You can love everyone with abandon, but obviously you can not have sex with everyone you meet. Sirens take responsibility for the physical boundary on their part (a simple “no thank-you” toward any sexual action toward you is sufficient), but allow the rest of that love and desire and longing aimed toward them to simply be a natural and perfectly understandable sign of affection that makes them feel good and validates their magical essence.

From a Siren’s perspective to withhold love, attention and caring toward anyone who is being loving and attentive toward them, is an act of cruelty. Unfortunately, many women are purposefully cold or cruel toward men they don’t want to have sex with, out of fear that if they are kind and attentive, the men will desire them sexually. By this logic, a woman would need to go against her natural kindness and shut down her heart 99% of the time, and hide all her gifts from the entire world, and only open up her full positive essence when she is in the private presence of an accepted lover she is 100% sure about. This way of living not only hurts her deeply (as she is almost never able to express who she really is out of fear) but it also hurts the entire world as well… as the world misses out on the beauty of who she really is. It is also completely irrational from a practical standpoint, as it’s quite difficult to ever find that lover you are willing to accept whole-heartedly in the first place when you always hide your light under a bushel unless you’re absolutely-positively certain you’re in the company of a perfect future husband… and yet this is how so many women have been taught to behave, out of fear that men will desire them when they express their true feminine essence freely.

Moving on to the second part of my statement, I will explain letting go of inappropriate attachment. Inappropriate attachment would be feeling that you are responsible for someone else’s feelings, and that you must change your behavior and natural self expression pre-emptively to avoid even the risk of disappointing a man who can’t have you sexually.

This is incorrect… you are not responsible for other people’s feelings or actions. You are not responsible for keeping a mans pride intact and ego unruffled. It is not your job to make him feel better about winning or losing something he wants in life, like a coddling mother. Things are what they are… some relationships are meant to be, and some are not. You are not in control of whether other people see that relationship glass half full or half empty. It is not for you to decide whether a man waiting years for you is something that is worth his time to take a chance on, or not. Whether it would be “torture for him” or a worthwhile act of love and devotion. For that matter you have no idea if one day things will change and all your objections will evaporate, and your heart struck by cupids arrow… because a Siren lives only in the present moment and takes each moment in the here and now. A Siren does not pretend to know the future, and none of us do. You can only be responsible for being the best version of yourself with everyone you meet, expressing sexual boundaries (only if needed) in the present moment, and letting others be who they are at whatever point they are at in their own journey without trying to change or control them, or manage other people’s feelings.

Ultimately, for any healthy, sane, adult person, to love and desire someone we hold in high regard is a pleasure, not a torture – regardless of whether sex is possible. 

If you’re not convinced, try the following:

Just imagine, you won a date with your favorite movie-star-crush, someone you’ve adored for decades for his grace, charm, good looks, talent, and commitment to charitable causes you also support. Imagine he flew into your city and spent a long, magical evening with you, telling you stories, making you laugh, answering your questions, paying complete attention to you, and even told you how special you were with thoughtful, honest compliments, and the night concluded with a warm hug and a kiss on the cheek before he returned home to the family you knew he had waiting for him back in Hollywood…

Would you really think this was torture… or one of the most magical experiences of your life? Would you see it as a treasured memory, or would you be quite bitter you couldn’t also have sex with him?

Now what if, following your date, this movie star was gracious enough to keep in touch with you over the years with well-wishes on special occasions, calls and emails to check in once in a while, and in spite of how many people this movie star had chasing after him, and how busy he was, and how random the date you won in a contest with him was – he still made time for you as a friend on an ongoing basis. Would you complain about it? Or would you feel lucky to have such an amazing, kind-hearted, special friend in your life? Would you use this experience as an excuse to get depressed (it’s not fair! why didn’t he marry meee!!!) or would you use this experience to renew your faith in the fact that there are good men in the world, and as proof that you are truly valuable as a woman because an amazing man like this movie star found you worthy of his time and attention?

This example gives you some picture of what it would be like for a man to know a Siren who is already in a relationship.

Most women would say after imagining this scenario, it would be an incredible experience, and they’d feel happy and lucky, rather than bitter. But as you can probably also imagine, some people are simply determined to see the glass half empty… and so there might actually be some women that would have this amazing experience and friendship with a movie star, and find a way to complain about it, or get depressed over it – though objectively almost everyone would agree that the movie star did nothing wrong in this thought experiment, and the randomly selected date was very lucky and blessed to have the movie star in her life.

Now ask yourself, in this thought experiment, if the male movie star just happened to go on a date with a hopelessly pessimistic lady who won the contest, and did everything we previously described, was a perfect gentleman, kind and loving and attentive and charming – but afterwards this woman bitterly complained to her girlfriends that “it’s not fair” the movie star didn’t leave his wife for her, and that the movie star actually “led her on” by being so handsome and charming she couldn’t help but feel attraction to him only to find out he wasn’t willing to cheat on his partner to sleep with her – if this is what happened, would you say that male movie star should feel guilty about the time he spent with that unhappy woman?

If you find yourself coming to the natural conclusion that would be absurd, the next question to ponder is why as women we so often feel responsible for the feelings of others, especially men, when we put no such obligation whatsoever on men in a similar position. You are not hurting someone simply by being desirable in all your many positive qualities, and being nice and friendly to them, any more than the mere existence of a beautiful mansion hurts someone who can’t afford to live in it. It’s not the fault of the grand house with the beautiful view that not everyone can live there – and it depends solely on the person wishing for that experience whether they are wonderfully inspired, or terribly embittered by the fact of it’s existence. 

I meet many wonderful men and I am not interested in dating any of them, as I have a partner already.

I wonder why dating comes up so frequently as a potential option for you with these men, and you must take action to reject their advances… in spite of having a partner.

It sounds like your partner hasn’t put a ring on your finger? Or perhaps you don’t live together, or are not public in your relationship? I do not know your circumstances, so I will simply say for any Sirens-in-Bloom reading this, if you are continually having to reject the advances of “wonderful men” because your “partner” has not made it quite obvious and public that you are no longer available for others, they should not get the title of “partner” in your life.

Date as many wonderful men as you like, until one of them is serious enough to make a permanent and public commitment to you, which makes it abundantly clear to the other men you’re no longer free for pursuit. (And just to clarify “dating” and “have sex with” are not the same thing. Dating is simply getting to know a man one-on-one through activities together.) If your “partner” is not sure about making things between you public and permanent, go ahead and date all these wonderful men and have a wonderful time!

If I see that a man starts showing extra attention and I understand his potential intentions, I let him know about my relationships and offer a friendship.

Again the question is why you have to let anyone know of anything… is there no ring on your finger to let him know? Is it not obvious by your partner standing at your side with his arm around your waist?

From a Siren perspective there are several issues with this statement. First off, you’re “mind reading” someone’s “potential intentions” and making a lot of pre-emptive judgements that are unnecessary. If a man shows you extra attention… great! Enjoy it! If he tries to suggest sex and you don’t want it… say no thanks.

A Siren knows how to filter what she wants from what she doesn’t want, without “throwing the baby out with the bath water” as the saying goes. This is a critical skill.

The second issue is whatever statement/speech you gave  about your existing relationship and the friendship you will accept. This is quite an unnatural thing to do. Because you are having to enforce an existing relationship which sounds like it is not as strong/committed/permanent as you want it to be, as it’s not already apparently obvious to the “new guy” because there isn’t a ring on your finger, or a boyfriend standing right next to you holding your bag and opening doors for you. You may unconsciously want the existing relationship to be more solid than it actually is, by making the statement to other potential suitors. Furthermore, telling someone you barely know what kind of relationship you will have with them in the future is predicting a future you can’t predict, and trying to control life events unfolding. Perhaps you find out next Tuesday the relationship you thought was meaningful is now over, and the “new guy” sweeps you off your feet and surprises you by having all the inner qualities you dreamed of in a lover or a husband…  A Sirens, we can never know where love, or the future, takes us… we can only know the circumstances of the present moment and be authentic, and ethical in regards to that.

This is why the words you choose are so very important. You don’t ever want to shut down possibilities for love in your life, including for great friendships, and you also can’t lie and pretend to be single or whatever the circumstances are. Since we put energy and intention into the words we speak, they must be chosen very carefully. When you tell someone the equivalent of “I will never ever ever consider you worthy of my romantic attention, you can only ever be a friend to me” that is a false statement because we can not predict the future. All that one can say honestly is something to the extent of “I can’t really see myself being with you romantically, but I’m happy to be friends because we both like xyz..” or “I’m very happy in my current relationship and not looking for another.” Thereby, if things ever change in the current relationship, or your feelings toward someone change, you haven’t lost that person in your life, or found yourself stuck in the unfortunate position of falling for someone you thought you’d never be interested in, and told them as much… only to regret it when you get to know them better and find out they’re actually a wonderful person.

So rather than attempting to put relationships into boxes with neat little labels of what we want to have happen, a Siren would simply state the facts as they are, such as… “It’s so lovely to meet you. That’s very kind… oh thank-you for the dinner invitation, yes I would like to hear more about your ideas. Jake, the fellow I’ve been dating, is working late tonight so I’m free this evening.” And you go from there. An honest statement, explaining how things truly are – you appreciate the compliments and invitation, you want to chat, you are dating someone, but free this particular evening. Then you see what happens and respond from moment to moment as needed!

If the new fellow suddenly makes an excuse and runs away because you’re dating someone else, great! He just proved he wasn’t being honest about a desire to get to know you or his compliments, he just wanted an easy sexual conquest.

If the new fellow doesn’t mind the mention of you seeing someone, and has a lovely dinner with you, great! Perhaps you’ll find yourself becoming fast friends. Or perhaps you’ll find the new guy is more compatible with you, Jake is too busy and less attentive, and you end things with Jake to enter into a romantic relationship with the new guy.

The point is letting life and love surprise you, rather than attempting to control the outcome – while remaining honest, authentic, loving, and ethical at all times.

Usually a man accepts it. You were previously saying that men felt good when they were useful to a woman. I agree, I can see it too. I never deny any help or attention from them, at the same time my boundaries are very strong. I don’t accept any disrespect or ignorance and always speak up. Because men like this behavior and respect me for this, it creates stronger feelings in them and at some stage of this friendship it becomes difficult for men to continue being friends, they want more and they express their true feelings.

They’re always free to express their feelings! You don’t have to share their feelings, and you don’t have to have sex with them either. There’s no problem here. 

You don’t owe men sex because they did nice things for you. If that’s what a man thinks will happen, he wasn’t really doing things for you to be “nice” in the first place, was he? He was only doing “nice” things to manipulate you into sex. Thereby you can let go of any misplaced guilt, as his “kindness” toward you was only a self serving ploy.

Any good man in your life will be happy to help you and do nice things for you without expecting sex in return. And if you already have a romantic relationship with someone else and you’re happy with that relationship, they will not inappropriately try to push you into cheating on your current man with them.

There is no difficultly in being friends with good men who desire you whatsoever…. It is a fact of life that Sirens are desired by everyone, and not everyone can be with them sexually… just as not everyone can marry a movie star. Only men who lack character will have an issue with these simple facts of life, and it’s not your job to fix the problems or feelings of men who lack character, or who lack decency & morals. A man with character can love you in a chivalrous way for his entire life. A man without character will quickly complain his primal itch isn’t being scratched, while acting entitled or like a sore loser throwing himself a pity party. Whether a man has character or not, isn’t up to you – and you won’t know ahead of time. That is why I repeat, you are only responsible for you… and responding appropriately and authentically in each moment and each situation, without trying to predict the future or to control people.

Unfortunately you haven’t given the specifics of the interaction so I can’t tell you the exact appropriate words/actions of how to handle a guy who’s making this “difficult” for you, but suffice to say we all know that pressuring someone to cheat on an existing relationship is wrong. So if they do that, “no thank-you” is an easy reply. If they simply express how amazing you are in their eyes, and how they wish they could be the one to show you a good time if your current relationship ever ends… then smile and accept this sentiment with graciousness. It is a beautiful thing to be loved – when you love yourself fully, you can be big enough to receive the love of others without undue anxiety.

I remind that romantic relationships are not possible, and at this stage I usually lose a man as a friend.

There is no reason this should result in the end of the friendship if the conversation is handled correctly with a good man who has character. 

A lot depends on how exactly you make this statement, and how absolute you are being in your rejection. Rejecting sex is not at all the same as rejecting love or the person, and you must be very careful about how you come across with your words.

I would point you to some of the examples I gave earlier, and focus on filtering what you like and don’t like – rather than declaring what relationships “are possible”. It’s fine to say something isn’t possible “right now” or that you “can’t imagine” being out of love with your current man, in spite of the qualities and friendship you enjoy with the other man… but a Siren never speaks in black and white absolutes, because that does not reflect reality.

Most of the times a man either stops any interaction or disappears. I know, I hurt his feelings.

Good communication doesn’t hurt feelings. See above for clarification and examples.

Also consider issues of misplaced, inappropriate guilt. Did you actually hurt someone’s feelings (do something unkind?), or are they acting hurt because they didn’t get the answer they wanted and they’re trying to manipulate your sense of pity? Are you dealing with a sore loser? Someone whiny by nature? Someone entitled with a fragile ego? Without more details I can’t give you specific coaching on this point, but I’d be happy to in a private consultation if you wish. 

Men obviously want and always wanted more than just friendship from the very beginning. They accepted friendship because they were hoping I would break up with my partner/ change my mind/ give them a chance.

Sure, that’s possible – and it’s also none of your business what their motives/feelings/ideas toward you are.

I know that sounds shocking, but it’s true!

You are not responsible for what other people choose to do, or how those choices end up making them feel. You are only responsible for being a kind and radiant Siren to everyone you know equally, and being honest and authentic to your present moment truth, from moment to moment.

If they ask you how you feel about them, and the answer is you’re not sure… that’s a valid answer. If the answer is that you can’t imagine ever being with them because they’re not your type physically… then that’s a valid answer also. If the answer is you think they’re a wonderful guy and really handsome and someone that you’d be happy to date but you’re already committed and happy in your current relationship, then that is what you say – because that’s the reality. They can choose for themselves, what is right for them, to do with that information. The key thing is not to lie or exaggerate because of the outcome you want to have happen. Don’t pretend you’re going to marry someone who hasn’t expressed that interest… don’t pretend you’re not attracted to them if you actually are. Say what is true even if it’s complicated. That is what it means to be authentic… if you’re not sure what you want because you love someone but they’ve been distant, and you’d never want to cheat but you find the new guy to be wonderful in many ways… it’s okay to say all of that. They’ll appreciate you being truthful, and reveal their character by either giving you space to figure it out, or pushing inappropriately and showing you that they’re not as tempting as they first appeared.

The key is to always be honest (both positive and negative) without overstating things or making future predictions. And if they don’t openly ask you how you feel, you don’t have to give them a pre-emptive speech about how a relationship will never-ever possibly happen between the two of you, because you’re either afraid of their future disappointment, or uncomfortable with male attention. It’s not your job to be a mind-reader, or “save them” from what you judge to be a hopeless quest, from your own limited/biased present moment perspective. Men love to be men… to chase, to compete, to try to win women they desire. Unless they are inappropriately aggressive in their desire, or harming you in some way, allow them the pleasure of doing what comes naturally. Relax and enjoy whatever it is that you enjoy with them in whatever kind of relationship you have, give them the lead as you rest in the feminine role, respect their private thoughts and feelings as their own, and don’t worry about the rest. 

They can’t predict your future with your partner, and neither can you. Maybe their gamble will pay off in the end, maybe it won’t. After all, even most marriages end in divorce within 7 years in the United States. If a great guy wants to hang around being your friend for 7 years in order to be first in line in case you get a divorce, that’s his choice. In your case, you’re not even married… so of course men will hang around waiting for a chance. It’s perfectly understandable. But as you are not forcing them to do it, and as you are not stopping them from dating anyone else in the meantime, having any attachment to their feelings about the outcome is inappropriate on your part. Their feelings and options for romance are not your responsibility.

Do not spend time trying to read other people’s minds or worry about their intentions… simply handle interactions in the moment, graciously receive what you can accept and enjoy (compliments, friendship, acts of service, attention, etc) unless they proposition you sexually, in which case you can politely decline.

So I wonder whether it is possible to continue being friends with a man who falls in love. It seems like a mission impossible for me and a torture for him.

Yes of course it is possible – if it wasn’t, Sirens would have zero friends in their life, because almost everyone is in love with them!

Examine your assumptions about relationships, and black-and-white thinking. I can tell you from experience, not only have I loved those I could not be in a sexual relationship with (who hasn’t?) but have been and am loved by many friends who will never have a sexual relationship with me. There are a thousand reasons why this may be the case… for example, if a woman falls in love with me, can I change my sexual orientation to make her happy? Of course not. But is it “mission impossible” to find her love and compliments flattering? To know that she sees my radiance, beauty, intelligence, charm, etc as magical, and is uplifted in my company? Or that she dreams of finding a girlfriend who is just like me, or fantasizes about a life with me in her own mind? What is impossible about knowing this, or having her tell me so? It’s affirming and beautiful to have such an effect on people, a blessing that should not be taken for granted. What about a man who is quite elderly, sick or crippled? A man who can’t have sex with anyone anymore, but who’s eyes light up when I walk in the room, who flatters me and kisses my hand like a knight in shining armor, who enjoys my company and helps me with advice, introductions, mentorship, or little acts of service… is it “mission impossible” to accept the words of this man who smiles and says I remind him of a long lost wife who was so beautiful, or who exclaims with good humor that if only he were 50 years younger he’d love to take me out on the town?

These love/desire confessions I’ve heard from so many people from all walks of life and personal situations, are not “impossible” to deal with, they are treasured memories in my mind. And yet I‘m sure such interactions would make many women uncomfortable, because their heart is not as open as a Siren’s heart. When love is expressed toward them from anyone who isn’t immediately “obvious husband material” they start to panic and shut down, and they respond as if it’s a threat by running away, making speeches about how it’s never gonna happen, or labeling the other person as “creepy” even when they haven’t done anything physical or inappropriate. Think about that… why would simply knowing that you are the romantic fantasy of an old man in a wheelchair, or a woman, feel threatening to so many women? They are great examples, because they can’t be confused with the threat of sexual assault, and yet so many women would be disturbed by knowing someone loved them romantically, if they did not want a sexual relationship with that person. They can’t handle the idea of love not being an equal tit-for-tat, sexual exchange. They can’t receive the desire of others without feeling uncomfortable or somehow obligated by it. 

Personally, I would be far more disturbed if a good male friend of mine was not in love or desiring me on some level. It would show they didn’t really see me, or pay attention to my qualities – which would be a poor sign for friendship. I believe that we naturally feel love (if not sexual attraction) toward anyone we know deeply, and healthy adult men are always going to find attractive women of childbearing age to be desirable. It doesn’t mean they get a pass to do something inappropriate about it… but would I hold it against them, if I knew they had a sexual dream or thought about me? Of course not. It would be strange if they didn’t ever have such a thought! In no way would that keep us from being friends as sane, responsible, ethical adults in whatever relationships we’re already committed to.

To be loved and desired and bring beautiful feelings to others through the gift of your company is the furthest possible thing from “torture” unless the individual is already tortured by a broken ego. It is insanity to perceive friendship from someone we deeply adore as pain, simply because they will not or can not have sex with us. If they are hurt, it is not their heart hurting but their pride, and it is not love that is wounded, but their ego.  

Do you have a recipe for this?

Yes – love yourself more. Stop taking responsibility for other people’s feelings and personal decisions, and give yourself permission to live in the present moment, be authentic in your self-expression, while accepting all the boundless love the world has to give, and flowing away from anyone who tries to shame you for not having sex with them. 

I wish you much happiness, and much love!

~Selina

PS. If this answer resonates with you, and you’d like to explore one-on-one Siren-life-coaching from me, I’d love to hear from you at TheSirenRules@gmail.com.

Dear Selina: My Girlfriend’s Creepy Husband

Hi Selena!
I’d love to know more about your idea of true sexuality…. There are moments when I feel nervous about it. I even try to be less feminine, especially when my girl friend’s husbands stares at me and I feel like I did something wrong. I still struggle with being shameless and flirty 🙂 or just expressing my femininity, and completely accepting my sensuality and sexuality.
Thank you, have a beautiful fall!
~M

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello M!

Thank-you for your question and kind words!

While I don’t have all the context from one comment, the first thing I’d like to bring your attention to is that a man’s inappropriate behavior IS NOT your fault or your responsibility. This is not about “true sexuality” or how feminine you are. This is about the fact that the HUSBAND of your FRIEND should not be leering at you and making you uncomfortable, period full stop!

He knows who he is married to… and he knows how he’s expected to behave. He is making a choice that is not okay, and he needs to experience consequences for that choice. When you, or any woman, feel you have to change what you wear or how you naturally express yourself, shutting down your essence in order to feel safe, you are suffering the consequences instead of the wrongdoer and giving up your power, while he gets away with bad behavior. This unfortunately teaches men that it’s okay to cross lines with women, because so many women immediately take the blame on themselves instead of speaking up, and stopping what is unacceptable.

Of course I hear these kinds of stories all the time, because so many women struggle with understanding proper boundaries, after a lifetime of having those boundaries violated since childhood and the learned helplessness that comes with that experience. And so here we have two adult women – you and your friend – both choosing not to do anything or say anything or draw any attention to the fact of what is happening to correct the husbands bad behavior, (which by the way will continue no matter what you wear, or how “feminine” or “not-feminine” you are, because it’s actually about his lack of RESPECT, and not your self-expression!)

If you’d like to know what a Siren would do in this situation, she certainly would not be silently suffering inappropriate behavior from a man, or rethinking her beloved wardrobe because one guy she knows is a creep! I would invite you to experiment instead with speaking your truth, having strong boundaries, and making sure that your choices reflect what YOU actually want to wear and how you want to express yourself, and not ever making decisions with you body based on trying to avoid men, or fearing men who cross the line. When you trust yourself to speak up, and know that you can keep yourself safe – you will move through the world with ease, grace, natural power, and sensuality… not from a place of fear or submission.

The next time he stares at you, call it out! “My eyes are up here, John…” “Why are you staring at me?” “Something got your eye? You haven’t blinked since I sat down…” and make sure your friend is either present when you do, or that you have a conversation with her about what has been happening if he’s sneaky about it. If she doesn’t already, she absolutely deserves to know this is going on.

The one thing creepy, inappropriate, and even abusive people can never handle is someone shining a light on their bad behavior without fear… like roaches, they can only thrive in the darkness.. the darkness of misplaced guilt, self-doubt, confusion and acquiescence. Never placate bad behavior… because you always get what you tolerate!

Bottom line, good men will never make you feel uncomfortable, no matter how you look, how you dress, or how feminine you act… they’ll smile, pay you a compliment, keep their hands (and eyes!) to themselves, and either ask you to dinner if you’re both single, or move along if you’re not. But they will not be constantly and obviously undressing you in their mind in the presence of their wife who is your female friend – gross!!!

I hope that answers your question and gets to the heart of the issue. Speak up and call men out when they are disrespectful, wear whatever you like, shine your light like a Siren, and feel free to flirt shamelessly with SINGLE men whenever the mood strikes!

Much love!
❤
~Selina

TheSirenRules@gmail.com